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sri1309
10-15 07:31 PM
I wrote this once before and I will say it one last time. Pulling stunts such as the flower campaign is XYZ. May be not to the extent we feel it should, but USCIS does realize that there are issues with how it is handling cases. It is doing the best it can with the limited resources it is being provided. Please dont embarrass USCIS anymore. Would you keep calling a blind person, blind? Please stop this childish behavior. If anything lets start thinking about CIR and how we can influence changes to favor legal immigrants. We have the time now so start lobbying for changes.
Kindly note that you are dealing with a established government entity. Stop adopting hindi movie ideas when interacting with USCIS. If it were so easy why not arrange "naach-gana" for USCIS everyday. We can invite Malaika Sherawat for half the price we are paying to lobby. Skimpy clothes, raunchy songs, and alcohol may mesmerize the visa officer into stamping 100 K greencards everyday.
I bet there were a good number of closed door meetings, lobbying, and lets throw a bone to keep them quiet for sometime- discussions that translated into the July fiasco.
I believe we are educated and sane people, so lets start doing the right thing.
Enough said.
" USCIS does realize that there are issues with how it is handling cases.".
All our efforts are to tell USCIS that we also realize it and we are waiting it to act. You shouldnt say "Hindi movie...". We thought it will work as it was a peaceful way and it did work. And I am very sure it will work again and again. USCIS and others will realize that this is the way legal applicants behave, which is very good. Nothing wrong.. Looks like you had a bad day..
Kindly note that you are dealing with a established government entity. Stop adopting hindi movie ideas when interacting with USCIS. If it were so easy why not arrange "naach-gana" for USCIS everyday. We can invite Malaika Sherawat for half the price we are paying to lobby. Skimpy clothes, raunchy songs, and alcohol may mesmerize the visa officer into stamping 100 K greencards everyday.
I bet there were a good number of closed door meetings, lobbying, and lets throw a bone to keep them quiet for sometime- discussions that translated into the July fiasco.
I believe we are educated and sane people, so lets start doing the right thing.
Enough said.
" USCIS does realize that there are issues with how it is handling cases.".
All our efforts are to tell USCIS that we also realize it and we are waiting it to act. You shouldnt say "Hindi movie...". We thought it will work as it was a peaceful way and it did work. And I am very sure it will work again and again. USCIS and others will realize that this is the way legal applicants behave, which is very good. Nothing wrong.. Looks like you had a bad day..
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oliTwist
01-17 03:06 PM
Sometime back I had read this book Inscrutable Americans by Anurag Mathur (http://www.amazon.com/Inscrutable-Americans-Anurag-Mathur/dp/1577310241) which is kind of hilarious story of someone like us duriing late 90s. I guess now your (many of our story) would worth another book :)!!
unseenguy
02-13 09:53 PM
Dude, did YOU and 99% of "ALL AMERICAN" FAMILIES not enjoy all the SAME facilities that I enjoy in this country. Why do I pay more than 99% of "ALL AMERICAN" FAMILIES, whatever that means? That's creates entitlement for me. That creates entitlement for EVERYONE in EB category.
.
Well with unemployment rate fast approaching 10%, you may want to make your percentage more like 85 or 80%, counting SS benefit, medicare
.
Well with unemployment rate fast approaching 10%, you may want to make your percentage more like 85 or 80%, counting SS benefit, medicare
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boreal
04-21 08:36 PM
Could someone post the meeting notes.
Quite a few number of ppl from IV attended and i do hear that some good things are going on in the background, esp with the Congressman's Guiterrez's office...Hopefully something good will happen for all of us out this....
Quite a few number of ppl from IV attended and i do hear that some good things are going on in the background, esp with the Congressman's Guiterrez's office...Hopefully something good will happen for all of us out this....
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singhsa3
03-03 01:16 PM
I just sent a request to CNN to take a look at this thread. A formal letter may be sent soon. So please continue to vote and participate.
eager_immi
01-18 12:13 PM
Please email a core member directly and get some chinese people to create a updated chinese version of the same website.
Thanks IV core group. Signed up for $20/month. Please continue your efforts.
I am from Chinese community and registered IV just a couple of week ago. There was no email message to me regarding this movement, and some other registerd users may encounter the same situation. You may need to resend them. Only when I opened IV website yesterday did I know this recurring program and current situation. I am assuming IV is the only group who are pushing to get the I-485 relief for high skilled workers with advanced degree. There are MANY MANY Chinese in the same situation but I guess there might not have so many Chinese in IV. IV core group may think of some better way to reach more Chinese or other people. Basically, we are on the same boat for the same direction. Better to concentrate all resources to reach one goal. I would suggest IV to setup a seperate Chinese (and Hispanic) contribution page to diverse the culture background of IV members.
Subscription Payment Sent (ID #2PX91085T34540611)
In reference to:S-19881018DS353430X
Thanks IV core group. Signed up for $20/month. Please continue your efforts.
I am from Chinese community and registered IV just a couple of week ago. There was no email message to me regarding this movement, and some other registerd users may encounter the same situation. You may need to resend them. Only when I opened IV website yesterday did I know this recurring program and current situation. I am assuming IV is the only group who are pushing to get the I-485 relief for high skilled workers with advanced degree. There are MANY MANY Chinese in the same situation but I guess there might not have so many Chinese in IV. IV core group may think of some better way to reach more Chinese or other people. Basically, we are on the same boat for the same direction. Better to concentrate all resources to reach one goal. I would suggest IV to setup a seperate Chinese (and Hispanic) contribution page to diverse the culture background of IV members.
Subscription Payment Sent (ID #2PX91085T34540611)
In reference to:S-19881018DS353430X
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gc_check
07-29 01:19 PM
Given the unemployment rate and also the current market condition, it is not really favorable for starting a Green Card process (Labor/PERM) if you belong to one of the field, where there are adequate number of people already available. The recent economic conditions has flooded the market with many people who might qualify, as the requirement is to accept any US Citizen/Perm Resident, if one has the minimum qualification, even if you do not have all that is requested for. Future GC holder might like this provision after GC !! It is now become even difficult to prove that no matching candidate was found. If you are eligible for EB1/EB2 (National Interest Waiver / Exceptional Ability) where you can get a waiver for labor and go for I-140 directly, then you have a better chance. Sadly (IT/Consultants) etc do not come under this, unless you are that exceptional with many patents, etc.. and have a better designation in the organization. Even couple patents would do no good in this case :(. One of the first step for GC, is to prove that it is not adversely affecting the US Citizen/Permanent Residents already in the country and if the HR is sure on this, they can't prove that no US citizen is available, they will not process GC. Remember the TARP Funded companies had restrictions imposed on them. Some of the companies listed are all good corporation that do thins per the law / books. Well, unless it is a small body shop totally rely on Consultants / Non-immigration worked for any reason, big companies will not spend extra $'s to get the Attorney's to be more creative to get through the process. When supply is adequate, they do not care. Unfortunately this causes so much stress / difficulty for the applicant going through the general EB3/EB2 (labor) category and USCIS slow processing and loop holes that were not addressed in the past but addressed now (Labor Sub. / Diff. process window in diff region, when people with later dates go through first,) per country limit, lost visa numbers cause enormous delay and added stress, but irrespective of all this, people still make it through eventually. A little patience and being persistent and take right steps will help regardless. We all know, the system is bad, complaining against it would not change. Work on making some positive influence on the system and even you fail many times, with each failure you go one step closure to achieve your goal. There were some success/relief that was obtained with the efforts of IV and the likes.. some set backs, but things will change for good. Sadly, due to lack of time, some people get affected the most and others not so much. Thatz life and real !!!
In your case, It is sad, they will not do GC as you were told at the time, when they hired you. But the reality in this is country --> Employment @ will and if you go through rest of the documents you have received, you will also see another clause "Either party can terminate the employment relationship, with or without reason with 2 weeks or without notice" depends on the company wording /time might change. Keep trying for alternate option that will help you get what you want.
In your case, It is sad, they will not do GC as you were told at the time, when they hired you. But the reality in this is country --> Employment @ will and if you go through rest of the documents you have received, you will also see another clause "Either party can terminate the employment relationship, with or without reason with 2 weeks or without notice" depends on the company wording /time might change. Keep trying for alternate option that will help you get what you want.
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masouds
02-15 04:52 PM
Well, I do have a vested interest in maintaining status quo, at least with regard to the per country caps.
But, working in one of the Valley companies, I see a lot of people from India and China who just don't mix with rest of the people, say, from Poland or Germany or France or Iran. US (the whole government, including USCIS) likes the idea of 'Melting pot' when it comes to immigration. When you melt a lot of metals with each other, you don't end up with a fragmented alloy, since you've capped the amount of each metal in your pot. That is how you get 'Little Italy's and 'China Town's and the latest one in San Jose, CA: 'Saigon Business district'
:mad:
Well, US government thinks otherwise about my (or USCIS') logic. If you think it is unfair, you can sue them. I won't stop you.
But, working in one of the Valley companies, I see a lot of people from India and China who just don't mix with rest of the people, say, from Poland or Germany or France or Iran. US (the whole government, including USCIS) likes the idea of 'Melting pot' when it comes to immigration. When you melt a lot of metals with each other, you don't end up with a fragmented alloy, since you've capped the amount of each metal in your pot. That is how you get 'Little Italy's and 'China Town's and the latest one in San Jose, CA: 'Saigon Business district'
:mad:
Well, US government thinks otherwise about my (or USCIS') logic. If you think it is unfair, you can sue them. I won't stop you.
more...
amsgc
07-02 09:36 PM
Regarding your argument on fairness:
On the contrary, under the current system immigrants from all nations do not have an equal opportunity to apply for a green card. Immigrants from the retrogressed countries are at an unfair disadvantage.
It is easy to see: A guy from ROW and a guy from India both are equally qualified engineers who have a EB2 PD of Jan 2008. The guy from ROW can apply to adjust status now, but the guy from India cannot apply until five years from now. That doesn't tell me that both immigrants have an equal opportunity.
Both immigrants would have had an equal opportunity if both could apply for GC at the same time. Once you have entered the country, have been gainfully employed, and your immigrant petition has been approved, how does it matter whether you came from India, china or Timbuktu? Your employer needs you for your skills, not your place of birth. Do you resolve your day to day office problems with your birth certificate pasted to your forehead?
Regarding your argument on diversity:
You need to understand that the country cap (set up 50 years ago) was NOT set up to give all countries an equal shot at sending EB immigrants to the US. The cap was based and an already existing xenophobic tendency (formally expressed way back in 1924) and the desire to retain the cultural and racial character of the US of '65. They would do fine with only handful of you if you didn't eat, drink, talk, walk and look like them.
Now, you need to understand another important point - The world has changed by leaps and bounds in the last fifty years, all made possible by advances in technology and a conscientious effort by governments to educate their people. As a result there are highly skilled people all over the world, who bring their own unique character and experience to the work place. And things have changed dramatically in the US too. Among other things, the US has become more accommodating to people of different cultural identities. Economically, the US is in need of more high skilled people than ever before. This is an irreversible trend, where the US of today is more interested in who you are and what you bring to the table than what you look like. If a few thousand Indians or Chinese are given the green card, based on their SKLLS, it will not alter the racial and cultural character of 300000000 Americans (that's 300 followed by six zeros). Rather it will only make it richer.
Usually politicians work in reactionary mode – they will espouse an idea once it is obvious that they can’t do without it. The fact that discussion to remove country caps in EB has come up in the congress means that the American people have already written it off as an absurd idea.
The law will change, whether you like it or not.
Read here and get yourself some education:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Services_Act_of_1965
Regarding the agenda:
The agenda of this organization is pretty darn obvious if you care to go through the home page. The idea is to get as close as possible to a system of immigration that appropriately addresses the needs of the US economy and is fair to both Peter and Paul. A system which gives out a green card in a timely fashion, based on skills, job requirements, and the time when the process was started. We need to advocate a change because the current system says to Paul "screw you" and rewards Peter.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't see how the per country limit is unfair! It was set up so that immigrants from ALL nations would have EQUAL opportunity to immigrate to the U.S. and to prevent any one (or two) countries from monopolizing the visa numbers. Getting rid of the per country limit would most certainly lead to immigration from a limited number of sources (countries) and thus jeopardize the diversity of the immigration process. Getting rid of it would be like robbing Peter to pay Paul because those countries who are severely retrogressed now would only see limited benefits and those who are not all that retrogressed would fall backwards - is that fair!? It seems these forms are dominated by "certain" groups who have their own agenda and don't really care about ROW! It makes me feel uncomfortable being an IV member from ROW!
On the contrary, under the current system immigrants from all nations do not have an equal opportunity to apply for a green card. Immigrants from the retrogressed countries are at an unfair disadvantage.
It is easy to see: A guy from ROW and a guy from India both are equally qualified engineers who have a EB2 PD of Jan 2008. The guy from ROW can apply to adjust status now, but the guy from India cannot apply until five years from now. That doesn't tell me that both immigrants have an equal opportunity.
Both immigrants would have had an equal opportunity if both could apply for GC at the same time. Once you have entered the country, have been gainfully employed, and your immigrant petition has been approved, how does it matter whether you came from India, china or Timbuktu? Your employer needs you for your skills, not your place of birth. Do you resolve your day to day office problems with your birth certificate pasted to your forehead?
Regarding your argument on diversity:
You need to understand that the country cap (set up 50 years ago) was NOT set up to give all countries an equal shot at sending EB immigrants to the US. The cap was based and an already existing xenophobic tendency (formally expressed way back in 1924) and the desire to retain the cultural and racial character of the US of '65. They would do fine with only handful of you if you didn't eat, drink, talk, walk and look like them.
Now, you need to understand another important point - The world has changed by leaps and bounds in the last fifty years, all made possible by advances in technology and a conscientious effort by governments to educate their people. As a result there are highly skilled people all over the world, who bring their own unique character and experience to the work place. And things have changed dramatically in the US too. Among other things, the US has become more accommodating to people of different cultural identities. Economically, the US is in need of more high skilled people than ever before. This is an irreversible trend, where the US of today is more interested in who you are and what you bring to the table than what you look like. If a few thousand Indians or Chinese are given the green card, based on their SKLLS, it will not alter the racial and cultural character of 300000000 Americans (that's 300 followed by six zeros). Rather it will only make it richer.
Usually politicians work in reactionary mode – they will espouse an idea once it is obvious that they can’t do without it. The fact that discussion to remove country caps in EB has come up in the congress means that the American people have already written it off as an absurd idea.
The law will change, whether you like it or not.
Read here and get yourself some education:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Services_Act_of_1965
Regarding the agenda:
The agenda of this organization is pretty darn obvious if you care to go through the home page. The idea is to get as close as possible to a system of immigration that appropriately addresses the needs of the US economy and is fair to both Peter and Paul. A system which gives out a green card in a timely fashion, based on skills, job requirements, and the time when the process was started. We need to advocate a change because the current system says to Paul "screw you" and rewards Peter.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't see how the per country limit is unfair! It was set up so that immigrants from ALL nations would have EQUAL opportunity to immigrate to the U.S. and to prevent any one (or two) countries from monopolizing the visa numbers. Getting rid of the per country limit would most certainly lead to immigration from a limited number of sources (countries) and thus jeopardize the diversity of the immigration process. Getting rid of it would be like robbing Peter to pay Paul because those countries who are severely retrogressed now would only see limited benefits and those who are not all that retrogressed would fall backwards - is that fair!? It seems these forms are dominated by "certain" groups who have their own agenda and don't really care about ROW! It makes me feel uncomfortable being an IV member from ROW!
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uma001
03-21 03:30 PM
****Plus $12K and then what? You will leave the firm in 6 months.****
Working for them till I get green card itself a big thing.You know getting green card takes a decade. How can you leave in 6 months just after filing.
BTW,Are you the owner of one of these companies?
Companies,
Don't show green card fruits before hiring an employee...Just be frank. Say it if you dont do green card before hiring , not after joining.
Working for them till I get green card itself a big thing.You know getting green card takes a decade. How can you leave in 6 months just after filing.
BTW,Are you the owner of one of these companies?
Companies,
Don't show green card fruits before hiring an employee...Just be frank. Say it if you dont do green card before hiring , not after joining.
more...
sunitharay
08-09 12:20 AM
I am spending sleepless nights worrying...and regarding resubmitting, is it not a waste submitting it twice - will they encash the checks twice?
OR
it seems to be a better idea to just enclose the RN # and submit the EVL separately...
OR
it seems to be a better idea to just enclose the RN # and submit the EVL separately...
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zuhail
03-10 01:09 PM
Hello,
I strongly suggest that we focus our time and efforts on a single and achievable target in this calendar year 2009.
Recapturing unused visa numbers from the last two decades would help us eliminate the retrogression issue. Other changes like Comprehensive Immigration Reform, Eliminating per country limits etc would require a leap of faith in the political process and it is unlikely to be achieved in this calendar year. The economy, unemployment rates, health care etc are bound to dominate the legislative agenda this year.
I suggest writing a petition or letter to the White House and the administrative offices strongly urging them to recapture the unused visa numbers.
I think we should follow the KISS ("Keep it Simple, Stupid") Principle to achieve this target.
If we add any other immigration provisions, it would increase the complexity of the legislation and it is bound to fail.
Could the administrators of this forum please consider my suggestion of focusing on recapturing the visa numbers and assign this task the highest priority.
By re-capturing the visa numbers, we are not asking for any change in the immigration laws. We are simply asking to use the visa numbers that had been lost due to inefficient processing by the USCIS.
Let us start preparing a petition and create a dedicated fund to achieve this goal of visa number recapturing.
Thank you.
I strongly suggest that we focus our time and efforts on a single and achievable target in this calendar year 2009.
Recapturing unused visa numbers from the last two decades would help us eliminate the retrogression issue. Other changes like Comprehensive Immigration Reform, Eliminating per country limits etc would require a leap of faith in the political process and it is unlikely to be achieved in this calendar year. The economy, unemployment rates, health care etc are bound to dominate the legislative agenda this year.
I suggest writing a petition or letter to the White House and the administrative offices strongly urging them to recapture the unused visa numbers.
I think we should follow the KISS ("Keep it Simple, Stupid") Principle to achieve this target.
If we add any other immigration provisions, it would increase the complexity of the legislation and it is bound to fail.
Could the administrators of this forum please consider my suggestion of focusing on recapturing the visa numbers and assign this task the highest priority.
By re-capturing the visa numbers, we are not asking for any change in the immigration laws. We are simply asking to use the visa numbers that had been lost due to inefficient processing by the USCIS.
Let us start preparing a petition and create a dedicated fund to achieve this goal of visa number recapturing.
Thank you.
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mirage
02-03 01:21 PM
Do you only do what IV support ? Did I say anywhere I want IV o endorse it ? Didn't we have these discussions over and over before? and the admins telling us to stop because IV goals are set and will not change?
If you just want to argue and waste time, lookup previous threads discussing this and you'll have enough reading material for weeks to come.
If you just want to argue and waste time, lookup previous threads discussing this and you'll have enough reading material for weeks to come.
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vgayalu
10-05 01:34 PM
Hi Guys,
My attorney sent the response last week and it was delivered to the Dallas, TX. I am little concerned that my attorney actually sent the response to a courier address rather than the PO Box for TSC that they ask you to send. So far I have not seen any updates on my case.
Vgayalu: After how many days did you see an update after you sent the response to the RFE.
RFE received date : 09/07/10
RFE Response sent (MAIlED) : 09/29/10
(IN USPS to PO BOX by Express mail)
RFE Response Received by USICS : 09/30/10 ( On line update on same day). - Hard LUD
Again there is one more soft LUD on 10/01/10.
Approval update : Hard LUD 10/05/10.
My attorney sent the response last week and it was delivered to the Dallas, TX. I am little concerned that my attorney actually sent the response to a courier address rather than the PO Box for TSC that they ask you to send. So far I have not seen any updates on my case.
Vgayalu: After how many days did you see an update after you sent the response to the RFE.
RFE received date : 09/07/10
RFE Response sent (MAIlED) : 09/29/10
(IN USPS to PO BOX by Express mail)
RFE Response Received by USICS : 09/30/10 ( On line update on same day). - Hard LUD
Again there is one more soft LUD on 10/01/10.
Approval update : Hard LUD 10/05/10.
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waitingmygc
04-09 06:00 PM
In this visa bulletin there is reasonable movement in family category. So, its not fair to conclude USCIS is not working.
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yabadaba
07-24 07:51 AM
Sorry, you are right. I hadn't had my coffee. Sorry for the false alarm.
can u please delete your post...this is ridiculous
can u please delete your post...this is ridiculous
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sanju
11-11 05:37 PM
I am not sure what lobbying efforts would do for us, haven't worked so far...
You have been waiting for your GC approval. Have you gotten it yet? No. Everything you have done hasn't worked. Then why continue to wait for the GC? Lets leave.
You see what I am saying. I am merely using your argument to highlight the ignorance embedded in your post.
I leave it up to IV core to followup on these ideas. I repeat, as I have done so many times, it is all about marketing + media presence. We won the July 2007 visa bulletin battle because of adverse media reaction to the state department. Grass roots stuff is all good, but no one will ever notice it.
I repeat, as I have done so many times, asking others to work on your ideas (which you seem to think are original and your own) is common wisdom on these forums. Next time, try to come up with something original.
.
You have been waiting for your GC approval. Have you gotten it yet? No. Everything you have done hasn't worked. Then why continue to wait for the GC? Lets leave.
You see what I am saying. I am merely using your argument to highlight the ignorance embedded in your post.
I leave it up to IV core to followup on these ideas. I repeat, as I have done so many times, it is all about marketing + media presence. We won the July 2007 visa bulletin battle because of adverse media reaction to the state department. Grass roots stuff is all good, but no one will ever notice it.
I repeat, as I have done so many times, asking others to work on your ideas (which you seem to think are original and your own) is common wisdom on these forums. Next time, try to come up with something original.
.
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Jerrome
07-13 12:38 PM
If your guess true, it is good for me.. My PD is 2006 April with RD of July 31st 2007 in TSC with 140 approved. :-)
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desi3933
02-03 01:04 PM
desi3933,
Thanks for your response. I did little digging on the H1 LCA front.Here's what I found out and I have one question too.
....
....
Do you have any idea ,in case of RFE, what happens if we just send W2 without LCA/ with latest LCA?
Thank you.
Like I said before, W2 should be good enough. If you get employment letter for that period, that will be better.
Typically LCAs are not needed, unless asked to prove H1-B status for job location and other related issues.
____________________
Not a legal advice.
US Citizen of Indian Origin
Thanks for your response. I did little digging on the H1 LCA front.Here's what I found out and I have one question too.
....
....
Do you have any idea ,in case of RFE, what happens if we just send W2 without LCA/ with latest LCA?
Thank you.
Like I said before, W2 should be good enough. If you get employment letter for that period, that will be better.
Typically LCAs are not needed, unless asked to prove H1-B status for job location and other related issues.
____________________
Not a legal advice.
US Citizen of Indian Origin
gclabor07
10-19 09:31 PM
Folks,
I was just looking at the Obama and McCain websites just to see how they look from design standpoint (I'm a UI designer by profession). I happened to read their views on Immigration. I was surprised to see that Obama's views were extremely vague and offered no solutions to retain or encourage highly skilled immigrant workers. McCain on the other hand has section on highly skilled immigrant workers and talks about retaining them after US education, H1B cap reform, greencard increase to reflect demand etc.
If you are curious, see for yourself.
Obama on Immigration:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/
McCain on Immigration:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm
Not that any of us are allowed to vote or our opinions matter to these politicians, I thought this presents an interesting comparison.
Thx.
I was just looking at the Obama and McCain websites just to see how they look from design standpoint (I'm a UI designer by profession). I happened to read their views on Immigration. I was surprised to see that Obama's views were extremely vague and offered no solutions to retain or encourage highly skilled immigrant workers. McCain on the other hand has section on highly skilled immigrant workers and talks about retaining them after US education, H1B cap reform, greencard increase to reflect demand etc.
If you are curious, see for yourself.
Obama on Immigration:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/
McCain on Immigration:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm
Not that any of us are allowed to vote or our opinions matter to these politicians, I thought this presents an interesting comparison.
Thx.
anurakt
12-30 11:51 PM
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